Posts by Joe Grundy

13

Wilmington Delaware Media report in another Topic

by truthlover in

sexual abuse by a female member of a 14 year old in the congregation and elders being sued by the county --- now that co's are liable for the elders only - does that mean the elders will lose everything if fines are levelled against them, since the society has washed their hands and separated themselves by setting the co in place??

.

Joe Grundy

(This may only apply to the UK).

Several years ago, when Health & Safety and other legislation was coming into force, I attended several 'senior management' seminars. It was emphasised strongly that liability for breaches lay not only on corporations/organisations (mine was a police force) but also on individual managers/those with responsibility.

I don't know whether there are any/many cases of individuals being held liable, but I am aware that in lawsuits individuals are named as defendants along with organisations.

My amateur view is that in WT land, it has been established by the ARC that elders are in a position of authority (despite the best efforts of Ms Applewhite) and thus are liable to be sued. There could be an argument that WT (in its various forms) has vicarious liability for the actions of its agents/officers (elders, etc.) but I think that there is sufficient case law in various jurisdictions to indicate that elders etc. are personally liable.

12

ARC: WT cf VAG

by Joe Grundy in

(i never was a jw).. as a retired child abuse professional, i followed (and continue to do so - it's an ongoing process) the arc proceedngs closely.

my understanding is that the purpose of the arc is to establish what current practices exist in various organisations and institutions, how those practices compare with accepted best practice, and what organisations and institutions need to do to bring their procedures and policies into line with best practice.

(and to find a way to compensate victims for what's been done wrong).. wt is case study #29 in the arc process.

Joe Grundy

" I'm not sure what it is going to take for them to finally fess up."

Me neither. It doesn't get much more serious than a Royal Commission. At some points during testimony it seemed as if they were open to change - but they weren't, as evidenced by the WT response. The WT lawyers back home watching the evidence must have been shouting at the screen.

I suppose that the false modesty and humble meekness was just 'theocratic warfare' after all - blended with incompetence and ignorance. I hope it comes back to bite them on the ass. Their deceptions and other reprehensible behaviour is out there for all the world to see. I hope that it is being noted by, for example, the UK Charity Commissioners in their investigation, by the UK Inquiry into institutional abuse, and by individual lawyers world-wide in progressing cases.

Compensation for past cases is very important, of course, but what is crucial is acknowledgement of failings and putting things right for the future. That may be a forlorn hope.

10

Any thought on Business Territory

by Sabin in

i was working one day, had a couple of male customers to serve when this lady walks in & offers me a track on her religion, my answer without thinking " i already know what the bible say's, i'm one of jw's".

she just threw me a dirty look & the two guy's just looked down & said nothing.

i just carried on, served them as nothing had happened.

Joe Grundy

" I even went in to a brothel. That was fun,"

Me too, but it was nothing to do with JW stuff. Just fun.

12

ARC: WT cf VAG

by Joe Grundy in

(i never was a jw).. as a retired child abuse professional, i followed (and continue to do so - it's an ongoing process) the arc proceedngs closely.

my understanding is that the purpose of the arc is to establish what current practices exist in various organisations and institutions, how those practices compare with accepted best practice, and what organisations and institutions need to do to bring their procedures and policies into line with best practice.

(and to find a way to compensate victims for what's been done wrong).. wt is case study #29 in the arc process.

Joe Grundy

Possum: That's a very encouraging report.

Can anyone here (you know WT better than I do) imagine WT making a similar statement?

12

ARC: WT cf VAG

by Joe Grundy in

(i never was a jw).. as a retired child abuse professional, i followed (and continue to do so - it's an ongoing process) the arc proceedngs closely.

my understanding is that the purpose of the arc is to establish what current practices exist in various organisations and institutions, how those practices compare with accepted best practice, and what organisations and institutions need to do to bring their procedures and policies into line with best practice.

(and to find a way to compensate victims for what's been done wrong).. wt is case study #29 in the arc process.

Joe Grundy

(I never was a JW).

As a retired child abuse professional, I followed (and continue to do so - it's an ongoing process) the ARC proceedngs closely. My understanding is that the purpose of the ARC is to establish what current practices exist in various organisations and institutions, how those practices compare with accepted best practice, and what organisations and institutions need to do to bring their procedures and policies into line with best practice. (And to find a way to compensate victims for what's been done wrong).

WT is case study #29 in the ARC process. I confess that I have no idea how the other groups have measured up, except from comments by HHJ McClellan - other groups seem to have acknowledged deficiencies and are prepared to improve.

In contrast, WT (as evidenced by its response to Mr Stewart's proposed findings) seems to have gone into completely defensive mode and has missed the point.

The ARC has given WT a golden opportunity - as emphasised by HHJ several times - to accept its shortcomings, to propose changes, to become more mainstream, to do the right thing. So far, it seems, WT wants no part of it and wants to stick with the sad specimens that appeared on behalf of WT to give evidence.

Their choice, of course.

I am minded to compare their stance with that of the Volkswagen Audi Group which has a major PR problem world-wide because of its admitted deceptive practices. It's not dealing with its problems perfectly, of course, but all the commentary I've read suggests that it's on the right lines.

Admit your faults, face up to them, change management if necessary, suggest a way to fix them, compensate victims.

Whether VAG have got it right or not, time will tell. But Toyota had something similar and got over it.

The world has now seen - or has the capability to see - the best that WT has to offer. It's a pretty poor and shoddy best, I submit.

75

Australian Royal Commission Findings released

by Mephis in

will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.

in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.

available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.

Joe Grundy

Punk:

You're right, of course, but sometimes it is far more effective to word these things properly.

E.g. 'Dr Applewhite's report is rejected'. That says it all - and effectively f**** her future career as an 'expert'.

75

Australian Royal Commission Findings released

by Mephis in

will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.

in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.

available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.

Joe Grundy

Not only looking grim for WT in Oz - ARC has effectively demonstrated that all policies and procedures world wide are dictated by the GB in NY.

Wide implications, I think.

75

Australian Royal Commission Findings released

by Mephis in

will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.

in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.

available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.

Joe Grundy

"F56 This report is referred to the Law Society of New South Wales in relation to the conduct of
Mr Toole in having failed to advise congregational elders of their obligations to report their
knowledge of the commission of certain criminal offences to the police."

Whatever, Toole's performance was shambolic and pathetic. One can imagine that he is likely to be struck-off/disbarred by LSNSW (rightly so, IMO).

That brings me to the recent WT Oz letter looking for qualified lawyers and accountants. My guess is that there won't be that many. I would also guess that qualified and licenced professionals may be more likely than most to be inquisitive and that lawyers in particular are following ARC proceedings.

Members of the hierarchy of WT have only to obey to be blessed, but JWs who are professionals (e.g. lawyers) must comply with the standards of their professional regulators to maintain their standing (and their licence). I wonder whether a lawyer who is doing quite nicely thank you and who happens to be a JW would be happy to compromise everything if he was called on to do something by WT that goes against his professional judgement.

I shouldn't make personal judgements, but I will. I spent my professional life around lawyers and I have some experience of them. On the basis of his appearance before ARC I would say that Toole was an ideal WT lawyer. He presented as evasive, weak, lacking in knowledge and a weasel who could be easily influenced. But he had the all-important Practising Certificate and thus was useful for signing stuff. Sorry if that's harsh, Mr Toole, but you knew or should have known what you were doing. You can't be a respected independent professional and a WT drone at the same time.

On another point - there were some comments posted here from posters who were disappointed at the lack of showy courtroom fireworks during the ARC hearings. I think that the ARC findings show that the best way to do these things is politely, calmly, professionally, clinically, forensically. Still working through the documents but I am very impressed so far. (Note that unlike WT publications everything is properly referenced and checkable). The bits of WT rebuttal I've read so far seem to be fairly poor. I wonder whether Toole was invited to assist with the rebuttal, or if WT is already trying to distance themselves from him.

The ARC is only valid within Oz, of course, but with other enquiries going on elsewhere (CC in UK and the wide-ranging enquiry just started) I have little doubt that the evidence arising from ARC won't go unnoticed, especially because the Oz and UK legal systems and procedures are compatible and - usefully - ARC has demonstrated that WT policies and rules are dictated world-wide by the GB.

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

Joe Grundy

I never was a JW. I was, for ten years, a commander of a Police Fraud Squad/Money Laundering Investigation Unit.

We dealt with several cases where 'believing congregations' (of all faiths) were defrauded to a very large extent by scammers who used their 'professed brotherhood' to overcome normal caution. Or, if someone is a brother in our religion, of course we can trust him. That sort of thing.

Conmen have told me that they go for family first, then those with who they have a connection, because 'they're easier'. Working themselves into a religion-oriented group is very easy.

13

Question time

by Sabin in

with all the evidence stacked against them on child abuse issues, why do you think they are still refusing to play ball with the authorities?

why not put their hands up & say "we got a problem, we need help to change our medieval policies, we need advise on how to conduct our affairs in away that is in the victims best interests".. do you think that it is blatant, selfish pride.

the risk of losing money & struggling as a consequence, or they truly believe that jehovah is protecting them & by admitting they have acted in this inconceivable way would bring reproach on his name?.

Joe Grundy

Having watched it again, I commend to you day 7, part 3, of the ARC proceedings. 1.52.00 on. A very polite but very effective bollocking from the judge. Note his comment that a consultant;s certificate re Jackson's father 'won't assist' and that time will be made the next week for Jackson's evidence.

Bear in mind that by this time the ARC had already heard from WT Oz elders, its chief lawyer and its head Oz JW.